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The Boxscore Geeks Show - A Bunch of Random Timestamps

Dre, Andrew, and Brian talk the "blockbuster" midseason trades of Mason Plumlee and Serge Ibaka. We also go over some common stat issues.

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Video Show

Show Notes

Today's show is pretty straightforward. We talk

Serge Ibaka for Terrence Ross

Mason Plumlee for Jusuf Nurkic

My article on common stat mistakes in on/off and +/- analysis.

Tune in!

I was looking at the comparisons of Ross vs. Ibaka, and noticed that Ibaka was compared to the 'average big' (who he is worse than). However, I notice that only 13 Power Forwards (with 500 mins plated) have WP48 above 0.100. Ibaka is actually the 17th best PF in the league, making him much better the 'average PF'.

I wonder if there is some reason why the PF crop has such weak WP scores. Is it the players, or is there something about the demands of the position that hurt their WP numbers relative to centres?
KuH,

I'd guess it's because the site tools are comparing PFs to all big players these days, meaning all PFs and Cs, not just other PFs. Centers are usually bigger and more productive at doing big man things than power forwards. There are more than 30 above average per minute centers right now.
Also, even though these trades were, as Andrews mentions "shuffling the deck chairs" and may not impact wins hugely, I thought they were really interesting trades for reasons other than their impact. There was some great insight on this show by our esteemed panel!
I'm interested in seeing what Nurkic does with a good point guard opposed to the worst one in the league. A lot of his problems (turnovers, shot selection), outside of free throw, seem like they could be related to where on the floor he receives the ball.

He's a good rebounder, so Portland's perimeter-heavy roster could force Nurkic into spaces where he's most-effective and keep him out of his danger areas.
KuH,

Centers are more valuable than PFs. They shoot better, have more rebounds, etc. That is my claim. Centers and PFs are now grouped with PFs under Bigs for adjustment purposes. I strongly think this means PFs will have lower WP numbers.

So now PFs are less valuable in terms of WP.

The new groupings make a lot of sense but I am not sure about them. I am not sure how inter changeable the two positions are. It is a good idea but.

It seems to me that WP has always been sensitive to position assignment. The new groupings are a really good way to reduce that but I am not sure how inter changeable the positions are.

I thought is was a great question. I think I am right. But maybe others can ship in?
one of the reasons why blazers have been struggling is due to their big men except for mason the other bigs have been terrible leonard, aminu and davis, for aminu i think his injury has been affecting him he's already missed 19 games and even now he still has a sprain while for davis lower rebound, lower shooting efficiency but what makes me wonder is why did his fouls increased from 5.3 to 8.3? the last time he had that many fouls were 4 years ago and it's not like he is a rookie who will get the short end of the stick on 50-50 calls , i wonder did he suddenly forgot to play defense? or is there something within the defensive system which lowers his chances for blocks but increases his tendency to foul?

when it comes to their management i am/was cautious even before the season because while they were good last year i still think getting evan turner wont improve them since the only time he played well was with stevens and i still think cj is overrated, sure according to arturo a high usage player with high efficiency can be really helpful however as the experience of dirk showed us he needs to be surrounded by defensive specialists just like dirk when he was with marion, tyson and kidd.
speaking of +- dre or brian how about arturo's new wp formula? what do you think about it?
I agree with someguy88, I've long thought the positional adjustments are just not that acceptable since I don't think the positions mean what WP thinks they mean. I have mentioned before that the traditional wisdom of the positions doesn't really match the game and I'd like for the WP formula to accept that a bit more.
Why is Houston so much better? They lost Howard who was good. They add two awful players: Ryan Anderson and Eric Gordon. Does D'Antoni get the credit? Was last season a Harden anomaly?
I watch Houston a lot. I think the spread floor this year really helps harden be so much better, and even if Gordon and Anderson are bad, they help with. Capela is not that much worse than Howard, and Harrell and Nene have been almost as good as backups as Capela was last year. The end of the bench has been way better - no ty lawson, no josh smith. Dekker has been productive. The team defense seems better this year as well. Also, I love reading and listening to all your content. It makes me less dumb. Do you have a recommended reading list that would make me even less dumb? thanks in advance.
Can you guys update the Raptors logo on your teams page? They've had a new logo for 2 years now.

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